Thursday, September 2, 2010

"The Self-Numbing Stingray"

In "Meno," there is a point in the text where Meno refers to Socrates as being "like that well-known stingray of the sea"(80b) due to the fact that everyone who he comes in contact with "feels numb"(80b) (or, more simply, perplexed). He claims that Socrates has worked this same magic on him and and accuses him of intentionally trying to confuse him on the subject they are addressing. To this accusation Socrates responds that he is only like a stingray "if the stingray makes itself numb while it numbs others,"(80d) due to the fact that as he befuddles other people, he does the same to himself.

I find that this exchange speaks volumes about Socrates' method of thinking. It shows that throughout their discussion, Socrates has been thinking and discovering things about virtue as he goes and is not just spouting out his opinion to Meno or simply asking random questions to distract him. As he tries to help Meno find enlightenment, he too is searching for his own understanding of virtue.

Alex Wade

7 comments:

  1. @ Mr. Wade's final sentence: Do you think Socrates is actively trying to find out what virtue is? Or does he maybe see the conversation as directed toward another purpose? If so, what? I imagine if he was seriously on the hunt for virtue he would have taken a different approach.

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  2. I think Socrates realizes he can never fully understand virtue. I don't believe he is actively trying to figure it out, because though that seems to be the goal of "Meno", (to figure out what exactly virtue is), the section about the stingray shows that attempting to define it will be unsuccessful. The conversation never seems to reach the point where there IS a definition; it is continually going back to the question about what virtue is, not aspects of it. Socrates sums everything up in the end: "But we will have clear knowledge about it when we attempt to inquire into what in the world virtue is itself by itself, before inquiring into what way virtue comes to be present in human beings" 100b.

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  3. I agree with Professor Davis on the account of actively finding virtue. I don't think virtue is something that's just idle waiting to be discovered. Judging from his discussion with Meno on virtue, if Socrates were a current philosopher, I believe his understanding of virtue would operate in "real time." When asked, Socrates has to constantly clarify what virtue means while somewhat admitting he doesn't know. I also agree with Gina in believing Socrates is constantly learning what virtue is, but not the entire aspects of virtue. Socrates' knowledge (expertise or skills) of virtue cannot be considered wisdom (heighten knowledge with deep understanding of situations). Socrates once quoted, "Wisdom begins in wonder." If this holds true, Socrates, due to his own personal self-discovery and "real time" explanation of virtue, makes a valiant effort toward achieving wisdom with regards toward virtue.

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  4. The sting ray section at first was slightly confusing to me. At first I thought this example was merely something Socrates said to kind of flatter Meno, as if to try and make them equals (although in my mind I still envision Socrates being much wiser than Meno at this point in time). But by the time I had finished the whole text, I think I agree more with what Ms. Fergione is saying than my initial reaction. It is clear that by the end of the reading, neither of them know specifically what virtue is. Both have explored the concept of virtue, and maybe have a slightly better understanding of it, but neither Meno nor Socrates can fully describe it yet. After reading this, does anyone have a clearer idea of what virtue is from when they started?

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  5. at Mr. Davis' comment-
    Throughout reading "Meno", I thought that Socrates had intentions other than trying to define virtue. He had said from the beginning that virtue cannot be taught or learned. My interpretation was that Socrates was merely trying to show Meno that not everything can be defined concretely. I think he also wanted Meno to realize that he can speak for himself instead of just filing in his head everything that Gorgias tells him.

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  6. I think that discovering what virtue truly is was not the intent of Socrates. In fact the opening question to the whole discussion was not what is virtue, but is it something teachable or rather "something that can be acquired by practice." Although the discussion ventured into the question of what is virtue, it was not the original intent of the discussion. I think that Socrates may have been vague on certain points in order to keep the conversation moving towards an answer to the proposed question. Also I think Socrates had already come to terms with the idea that he could not define virtue.

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  7. I think Meno is really just admitting to Socrates that his intellect is just running circles around Meno. Meno can't keep up with some of Socrates' processes, but then Socrates protests, saying that if you're getting left behind, I'm leaving myself behind too.

    Socrates will do all he can to remove any sense of rank in a discussion. Meno's comment could be seen as a sort of compliment, but right away Socrates puts himself away from any type of elevation.

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